Lessons to be learned

[copsey]

My grandpa was born and raised in a very small town in the hills of Kentucky. He was a very intelligent man and used to tell lots of stories about growing up and the things he saw, the changes in life, leasure etc.

The reason I bring this up is that I remember him talking about the dissapearance of self reliance. He said that when he was young everyone took care of their properties, they had gardens and raised livestock to feed themselves and their families. Shortly after the New Deal many of the people started receiving government aid because they were below the poverty line. These people did notlead bad lives and were almost exclusively self sufficient. My grandpa said it didn't take long before many stopped raising livestock and growing gardens because they didn't have a need to, everything was being provided to them without working for it. At this point their residences began to degrade and when they once would have maintaned their properties and kept things looking good they stopped. It seems to me and my grandfather agreed that once people lost their need to be productive they lost all motivation for everything in their lives, once their self reliance was gone so was all personal pride.

I hope this makes sense. Sometimes being hungry is one hell of a motivator. I really think this country needs to go hungry every once in a while. It's good for the soul.

[odeezie]

http://jetztimg.sueddeutsche.de/upl/images/user/ue/uebersicht/260392.jpg

[jnickell]

This is evident in your typical trust fund baby. They do nothing for their money and are generally non contributing members of society who are completely spoiled. Yes, this is a generalization but I think it's accurate. A perfect example of this is my POS cousin. My aunt babied him from day one. He's now 20 years old and refuses to get a job. Yet, my aunt continues to "assist" him. If it were my kid, he'd have one week to find a job or he'd be out on his ass. Once out on his ass, I think your theory would take over. As long as no one else enabled him to be a lazy ass, I think he'd figure it out.

[eighttwelve]

What is the point of this topic? I feel like there's some underlying reason...:lol:

[jnickell]

What is the point of this topic? I feel like there's some underlying reason...:lol:


LOL...

I didn't even think of the possible connection between you and this thread. If that's what your implying. I don't think Mike did either.

[copsey]

It just falls in line with the downturn of our country. If you feel it applies to you,so be it.

[eighttwelve]

haha, i didn't even mean me, you guys made that connection. I was talking about the economic thread.

And I would say I don't fall in this category, although i can relate to it given my university peers here in Orange County. I also am lucky enough to have my parents help support me until I get out of college as well.

[copsey]

For me it falls into the healthcare debate, if you can't afford healthcare, what decisions did you make to put yourself into that position? If you have children and can't afford them, why didn't you take precautions to prevent that from happening instead of asking for a hand out.

[copsey]

10% of life is what happens to you, and 90% how you respond to it.

[odeezie]

For me it falls into the healthcare debate, if you can't afford healthcare, what decisions did you make to put yourself into that position? If you have children and can't afford them, why didn't you take precautions to prevent that from happening instead of asking for a hand out.

So you would support a resolution requiring soldiers to pay for their own healthcare? Being a soldier is a job like any other, and they are aptly paid for it, so they should be required to purchase their own healthcare.

Can I say with certainty that you agree with the above?

[valvesR4pussies]

My grandpa was born and raised in a very small town in the hills of Kentucky. He was a very intelligent man and used to tell lots of stories about growing up and the things he saw, the changes in life, leasure etc.

The reason I bring this up is that I remember him talking about the dissapearance of self reliance. He said that when he was young everyone took care of their properties, they had gardens and raised livestock to feed themselves and their families. Shortly after the New Deal many of the people started receiving government aid because they were below the poverty line. These people did notlead bad lives and were almost exclusively self sufficient. My grandpa said it didn't take long before many stopped raising livestock and growing gardens because they didn't have a need to, everything was being provided to them without working for it. At this point their residences began to degrade and when they once would have maintaned their properties and kept things looking good they stopped. It seems to me and my grandfather agreed that once people lost their need to be productive they lost all motivation for everything in their lives, once their self reliance was gone so was all personal pride.

I hope this makes sense. Sometimes being hungry is one hell of a motivator. I really think this country needs to go hungry every once in a while. It's good for the soul.


Good stuff

[jnickell]

So you would support a resolution requiring soldiers to pay for their own healthcare? Being a soldier is a job like any other, and they are aptly paid for it, so they should be required to purchase their own healthcare.

Can I say with certainty that you agree with the above?

This is an exception to the rule. The military is basically a self sufficient machine, Including health care (granted, the money is from taxpayers). A soldier's work place is the world. It doesn't make sense to purchase health care insurance when it only works here in the US anyway. Besides, soldiers are serving the country, not the other way around. They should be able to get it free.

P.S.
Brad, you must have blisters on your hands from stirring that pot 'O' shiot as much as you do. ;-)

[odeezie]

This is an exception to the rule. The military is basically a self sufficient machine, Including health care (granted, the money is from taxpayers). A soldier's work place is the world. It doesn't make sense to purchase health care insurance when it only works here in the US anyway. Besides, soldiers are serving the country, not the other way around. They should be able to get it free.

P.S.
Brad, you must have blisters on your hands from stirring that pot 'O' shiot as much as you do. ;-)


Im just looking for a little consistency ;-):lol:

[eighttwelve]

For me it falls into the healthcare debate, if you can't afford healthcare, what decisions did you make to put yourself into that position? If you have children and can't afford them, why didn't you take precautions to prevent that from happening instead of asking for a hand out.
so if a family grew up poor because of their environment, (including poor education, poor parenting, psychological issues they were born with, things that are beyond their control, etc.) they don't have health care by choice? Or, what if they had healthcare, only to be overcharged and then released because they could no longer pay, resulting in the death of the breadwinner of the family? How are these things just?

What if your kid was born with a disability which meant that your insurance would dramatically rise? Now, the insurance you could once pay for does not cover him and now you likely can barely afford it at all if you do want him covered. If anybody in your family were to have an issue, your coverage would drop you as soon as you started getting treatment because you'd soon be unable to pay.

Yes, there are people taking advantage of the system, but the average person affected by healthcare **** ups are regular people just trying to live their lives. Just because it hasnt' affected you now doesn't mean it won't or couldn't. And that's the point of this healthcare reformation. To prevent you and me from experiencing that kind of situation.

[IGASAURUS]

So you would support a resolution requiring soldiers to pay for their own healthcare? Being a soldier is a job like any other, and they are aptly paid for it, so they should be required to purchase their own healthcare.

Can I say with certainty that you agree with the above?


I'm pretty surprised you said that. You know that's a rediculous statement.

[odeezie]

I'm pretty surprised you said that. You know that's a rediculous statement.

:lol: The pay is ok...and if they cannot afford to purchase their own health insurance, Mike says "what decisions did [they] make to put [themselves] into that position?"
:-P

[copsey]

:lol: The pay is ok...and if they cannot afford to purchase their own health insurance, Mike says "what decisions did [they] make to put [themselves] into that position?"
:-P

One, you are an asshole. Two, if you job provides you with insurance, then guess what, you made a good decision.

[odeezie]

One, you are an asshole. Two, if you job provides you with insurance, then guess what, you made a good decision.

:lol: Im an asshole because I point out your inconsistencies? So they have made a good decision to get free health care on the taxpayer's dime? Sounds like socialism to me.

[copsey]

It's an inconsistency to have healthcare provided by your employer?

[odeezie]

It's an inconsistency to have healthcare provided by your employer?

Its inconsistent with your argument when that healthcare is funded on the taxpayers dime.

[USMC-171]

Its inconsistent with your argument when that healthcare is funded on the taxpayers dime.

It's funded on the tax payers dime, but military personal work for their coverage they have. They don't just request aid and receive which is what all the lazy, irresponsible and damaging fuks in America want right now. I get healthcare from the Marines funded by the tax payers because I break my back day to day and have in general a dangerous job. You should feel the same way having served your time. Why should the everyday person get what I receive when I have to work so much harder for it? Gives me motivation to go home, smoke a bowl and know I'm receiving healthcare coverage, and am eligible for unemployment, food stamps, wic checks and 1500 a month for every kid my gf pops out. Who needs to work when your gonna pick up the bill?

[eighttwelve]

One, you are an asshole.
lol. typical.

[odeezie]

It's funded on the tax payers dime, but military personal work for their coverage they have. They don't just request aid and receive which is what all the lazy, irresponsible and damaging fuks in America want right now. I get healthcare from the Marines funded by the tax payers because I break my back day to day and have in general a dangerous job. You should feel the same way having served your time. Why should the everyday person get what I receive when I have to work so much harder for it? Gives me motivation to go home, smoke a bowl and know I'm receiving healthcare coverage, and am eligible for unemployment, food stamps, wic checks and 1500 a month for every kid my gf pops out. Who needs to work when your gonna pick up the bill?


Ahhh...so now we are trying to justify "socialism" based on the physical demands of the job, and the fact that they "work for their coverage". So if I go out and break my balls working for a private company, why shouldnt the taxpayer pick up my healthcare tab? After all, a jobs a job, and if I work just as hard, that too means that I have "worked for my coverage".

[IGASAURUS]

Wow this is getting good!

[sharkmx62]

:popcorn:Wow this is getting good!

[USMC-171]

Ahhh...so now we are trying to justify "socialism" based on the physical demands of the job, and the fact that they "work for their coverage". So if I go out and break my balls working for a private company, why shouldnt the taxpayer pick up my healthcare tab? After all, a jobs a job, and if I work just as hard, that too means that I have "worked for my coverage".

If you work for a private company and your work hard enough to rate health care from them, in no way should tax payers foot the bill. It is unfortunate that the military is run for the most part solely on tax payer dollars, but that's how that breaks down. It's not like the Marine corps has something to sell, or we can charge foreign nations for our service. What's wrong with working for coverage from your company? If your company is the U.S. government it's still a job and still might rate health care. For those who pay for their own health care and now have to foot the bill for those who don't is asinine and unjust. Not everyone is deserving of a handout, some people do need healthcare and do need a pick me up. It's the assholes who abuse it who ruin it for everyone.

[odeezie]

If you work for a private company and your work hard enough to rate health care from them, in no way should tax payers foot the bill. It is unfortunate that the military is run for the most part solely on tax payer dollars, but that's how that breaks down. It's not like the Marine corps has something to sell, or we can charge foreign nations for our service. What's wrong with working for coverage from your company? If your company is the U.S. government it's still a job and still might rate health care. For those who pay for their own health care and now have to foot the bill for those who don't is asinine and unjust. Not everyone is deserving of a handout, some people do need healthcare and do need a pick me up. It's the assholes who abuse it who ruin it for everyone.


Private companies are not required to provide health insurance. You can work your ass off and they dont have to provide it. Corporations are concerned with their bottom lines and paying exorbitant costs for employee health care really puts a dent in that. You have seen our deficits here in the US. We cant afford to provide you with healthcare. Yes I think you work hard enough, but what makes you so special that we should all foot the bill for your health care? You chose the job, you should have to pay for your own health care or find a company that is willing to pay for yours. It shouldnt be on the taxpayers dime. Thats socialism. Also there are tons of lazy ass marines, soldiers and sailers, not everyone is deserving of a handout.

[USMC-171]

Private companies are not required to provide health insurance. You can work your ass off and they dont have to provide it. Corporations are concerned with their bottom lines and paying exorbitant costs for employee health care really puts a dent in that. You have seen our deficits here in the US. We cant afford to provide you with healthcare. Yes I think you work hard enough, but what makes you so special that we should all foot the bill for your health care? You chose the job, you should have to pay for your own health care or find a company that is willing to pay for yours. It shouldnt be on the taxpayers dime. Thats socialism. Also there are tons of lazy ass marines, soldiers and sailers, not everyone is deserving of a handout.

Plenty, and I understand that healthcare is not something required by private companies, nor is it a right coming from the taxpayers via military service. However, job titles included being in the military is hazardous to your health. Regardless of the branch, regardless of the mission. They provide a service less than 1% of the American population are willing to provide at great risk of bodily harm. It is a perk, and most cases a necessity for the amount of crap that comes down the wire with servicemen in harms way. No general citizen is deserving of that coverage simply because the turn Oxygen into carbon dioxide here in the states.
If my healthcare was pulled for any reason my attention would immediatley turn to footing the bill through my own resources and it wouldn't be cheap! I would have to make sacrifices but responsibility often calls of us to do that!

[odeezie]

Plenty, and I understand that healthcare is not something required by private companies, nor is it a right coming from the taxpayers via military service. However, job titles included being in the military is hazardous to your health. Regardless of the branch, regardless of the mission. They provide a service less than 1% of the American population are willing to provide at great risk of bodily harm. It is a perk, and most cases a necessity for the amount of crap that comes down the wire with servicemen in harms way. No general citizen is deserving of that coverage simply because the turn Oxygen into carbon dioxide here in the states.
If my healthcare was pulled for any reason my attention would immediatley turn to footing the bill through my own resources and it wouldn't be cheap! I would have to make sacrifices but responsibility often calls of us to do that!


Ahhh ok, now I understand, you see your job as better and more difficult than everyone elses, so you are entitled to it. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess 8 years of getting an education, and providing a service that less than 1% of americans are able to do is not deserving of healthcare. Where as a GED and roughing it through eight weeks of boot camp makes one infinetly deserving of absorbing the taxpayers money. I have changed my mind, this is no longer socialism, for you guys want to practice "selected" socialism. Everyone picks up the tab for only those you feel are qualified to receive the benefits.

[Derek]

Oh ****, son.

[USMC-171]

Ahhh ok, now I understand, you see your job as better and more difficult than everyone elses, so you are entitled to it. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess 8 years of getting an education, and providing a service that less than 1% of americans are able to do is not deserving of healthcare. Where as a GED and roughing it through eight weeks of boot camp makes one infinetly deserving of absorbing the taxpayers money. I have changed my mind, this is no longer socialism, for you guys want to practice "selected" socialism. Everyone picks up the tab for only those you feel are qualified to receive the benefits.

Did I qualify that healthcare provided by the marines wasn't a right? Just to clarify I will say it again ^^. I am entitled to it as much as my father at UPS is entitled to his. I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding "I guess 8 years of getting an education, and providing a service that less than 1% of americans are able to do is not deserving of healthcare. Where as a GED and roughing it through eight weeks of boot camp makes one infinetly deserving of absorbing the taxpayers money."
But if you are referring to my Marine Corps I can clarify and possibly correct some misunderstandings... I am a part of the officers corps, I have a Bachelors I honestly believe that my job and my marines training at parris island and san diego are FAR more difficult than anything any average citizen will ever put up with. If the selfless actions and motivations of our citizens in uniforms are not qualifying of healthcare, then no job is. Your making this a debate on whether or not servicemen deserve healthcare and trying to compare their coverage to marixism? Are you off your rocker?
I will it bring this argument full circle for your convenience. the essential difference is they provide a service to the general public to deserve their healthcare. It isn't a question of whether or not they deserve it, nor should their be issues with how they do receive it but it appears the underlying issue is you seeing servicemembers as the same as the assholes i had to go to college with!

[odeezie]

Did I qualify that healthcare provided by the marines wasn't a right? Just to clarify I will say it again ^^. I am entitled to it as much as my father at UPS is entitled to his. I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding "I guess 8 years of getting an education, and providing a service that less than 1% of americans are able to do is not deserving of healthcare. Where as a GED and roughing it through eight weeks of boot camp makes one infinetly deserving of absorbing the taxpayers money."
But if you are referring to my Marine Corps I can clarify and possibly correct some misunderstandings... I am a part of the officers corps, I have a Bachelors I honestly believe that my job and my marines training at parris island and san diego are FAR more difficult than anything any average citizen will ever put up with. If the selfless actions and motivations of our citizens in uniforms are not qualifying of healthcare, then no job is. Your making this a debate on whether or not servicemen deserve healthcare and trying to compare their coverage to marixism? Are you off your rocker?
I will it bring this argument full circle for your convenience. the essential difference is they provide a service to the general public to deserve their healthcare. It isn't a question of whether or not they deserve it, nor should their be issues with how they do receive it but it appears the underlying issue is you seeing servicemembers as the same as the assholes i had to go to college with!


I see you have resorted to persnal attacks, essentially verifying that your argument is weak at best. I am only trying to provide some consistency to your arguments about healthcare and who should receive healthcare on teh taxpayers dime. Nothing in these posts are directed at you. You stated in a previous post, "They provide a service less than 1% of the American population are willing to provide at great risk of bodily harm." insinuating that everyone else can never measure up, and their jobs are not nearly as important or deserving. That is why I pointed out the fact that many people spend many years getting an education, and do a job that very few are able to perform.
Thank you for bringing this "full circle for my convenience" I was having a terrible time following :lol: Fact is, many professions provide a service to the general public; police officers, firefighters, teachers, paramedics, doctors, civil service workers, corrections officers, etc etc. However, according to you, the servicemen are the only one who should receive taxpayer funded healthcare.

I have an interesting theory. Could it be that you feel this way because you are a servicemember? Huh, go figure. You got yours, why should you have to pay for anyone else to have theirs? I think this is where your whole selected socialism comes into play. You would like to choose which groups you feel are important enough to deserve taxpayer funded benefits and which are not. It really is a brilliant plan. :8/

[copsey]

Your "argument" is a broad brush approach only trying to get a reaction and has no valid point. It really does get tiring.

[odeezie]

Your "argument" is a broad brush approach only trying to get a reaction and has no valid point. It really does get tiring.

I thought this would never come! You have finally figured it out! Two threads and a few hundred posts and you have finally seen the light. That is the exact description of your views on healthcare; hardly an argument, based more on welfare more than anything, full of misconceptions, and most of all, extremely tiring. :thumbsup:

[USMC-171]

I see you have resorted to persnal attacks, essentially verifying that your argument is weak at best. I am only trying to provide some consistency to your arguments about healthcare and who should receive healthcare on teh taxpayers dime. Nothing in these posts are directed at you. You stated in a previous post, "They provide a service less than 1% of the American population are willing to provide at great risk of bodily harm." insinuating that everyone else can never measure up, and their jobs are not nearly as important or deserving. That is why I pointed out the fact that many people spend many years getting an education, and do a job that very few are able to perform.
Thank you for bringing this "full circle for my convenience" I was having a terrible time following :lol: Fact is, many professions provide a service to the general public; police officers, firefighters, teachers, paramedics, doctors, civil service workers, corrections officers, etc etc. However, according to you, the servicemen are the only one who should receive taxpayer funded healthcare.

I have an interesting theory. Could it be that you feel this way because you are a servicemember? Huh, go figure. You got yours, why should you have to pay for anyone else to have theirs? I think this is where your whole selected socialism comes into play. You would like to choose which groups you feel are important enough to deserve taxpayer funded benefits and which are not. It really is a brilliant plan. :8/

When did my argument turn personal?
and yes there are many many many jobs not nearly as important or as essential to the survival and continuity of American civilization as being a service member. Don't forget police officers, social workers, firefighters, all these public servants receive benefits via tax payer dollar. They all deserve because they provide a contributing necessary element to our way of life. I would feel this way regardless of my station in life, it's my deep seated conservatism which is based in logic that keeps me from making ridiculous decisions and statements like "because servicemen receive benefits everyone should"
I'm personally selecting which groups receive tax payer benefits because those groups offer a service invaluable to the American people can do. And please for the life of me, if it were so fuking easy why do only 1% of our population choose to do it, and even less commit themselves to leading that 1%. We are the elite amongst people, well the marine corps is. The army's history speaks for itself.

[eighttwelve]

I thought this would never come! You have finally figured it out! Two threads and a few hundred posts and you have finally seen the light. That is the exact description of your views on healthcare; hardly an argument, based more on welfare more than anything, full of misconceptions, and most of all, extremely tiring. :thumbsup:
Right on. Not to mention it's extremely tiring to make a bunch of valid points, only to have one of them distorted into being some kind of anti-american sentiment or just have them ignored altogether. And then have it followed by a series of opinions based on misconceptions. Finished off with an insult simply for disagreeing. I would find it annoying if it weren't so funny.

[copsey]

And you'll both love it when I'm paying for your healthcare, because "It was too expensive!"

[odeezie]

When did my argument turn personal?
and yes there are many many many jobs not nearly as important or as essential to the survival and continuity of American civilization as being a service member. Don't forget police officers, social workers, firefighters, all these public servants receive benefits via tax payer dollar. They all deserve because they provide a contributing necessary element to our way of life. I would feel this way regardless of my station in life, it's my deep seated conservatism which is based in logic that keeps me from making ridiculous decisions and statements like "because servicemen receive benefits everyone should"
I'm personally selecting which groups receive tax payer benefits because those groups offer a service invaluable to the American people can do. And please for the life of me, if it were so fuking easy why do only 1% of our population choose to do it, and even less commit themselves to leading that 1%. We are the elite amongst people, well the marine corps is. The army's history speaks for itself.


You just dont have a clue do you? :lol: You pointed out that police, fire, etc. employees are paid via tax dollars; this is true. However, when the budget can no longer bear it, their healthcare insurance gets the axe. The funny thing is that you, and you alone, would like to choose who is deemed to be providing a necessary service, and the rest can go to hell. Get off the high horse, 95% of the jobs in the military are extremely easy, and most anyone could do them. I mean, dont get me wrong, I love Marines. I mean who else would blindly charge the machine gun nest, soak up the lead, and create a great diversion for soldiers to take out the objective?

The whole point is that you rail against what you perceive as socialism, but in your next breath you fully support it...if it benefits you. :rotfl:
Not only is that moronic, its quite hypocritical.

[USMC-171]

Right on. Not to mention it's extremely tiring to make a bunch of valid points, only to have one of them distorted into being some kind of anti-american sentiment or just have them ignored altogether. And then have it followed by a series of opinions based on misconceptions. Finished off with an insult simply for disagreeing. I would find it annoying if it weren't so funny.

razzing is hardly insulting, often enough. I'm sure this will boil down like every other argument. It was a can of worms to start off with and instead of anyone getting butthurt well have to agree to disagree. Arguing on the internet is like pissing in the wind.

[odeezie]

And you'll both love it when I'm paying for your healthcare, because "It was too expensive!"

I will enjoy it. Daddy hooked you up with a nice shop, so ill sit back, collect food stamps, and enjoy my free healthcare. Get to work Mike!! :thumbsup:

[USMC-171]

You just dont have a clue do you? :lol: You pointed out that police, fire, etc. employees are paid via tax dollars; this is true. However, when the budget can no longer bear it, their healthcare insurance gets the axe. The funny thing is that you, and you alone, would like to choose who is deemed to be providing a necessary service, and the rest can go to hell. Get off the high horse, 95% of the jobs in the military are extremely easy, and most anyone could do them. I mean, dont get me wrong, I love Marines. I mean who else would blindly charge the machine gun nest, soak up the lead, and create a great diversion for soldiers to take out the objective?

The whole point is that you rail against what you perceive as socialism, but in your next breath you fully support it...if it benefits you. :rotfl:


Not only is that moronic, its quite hypocritical.

Providing tax payer funded healthcare to soldiers and marines is HARDLY socialism.
As well, I can sit and turn this thread into a debate into the history of the marines and the army but basic knowledge speaks for itself. Korea, the south pacific, fallujah, vietnam.... yea. On topic, you manipulate anything you want to coerce others thinking what you want. I''m done with this argument.

[USMC-171]

I will enjoy it. Daddy hooked you up with a nice shop, so ill sit back, collect food stamps, and enjoy my free healthcare. Get to work Mike!! :thumbsup:

seriously, millions on welfare depend on us.

[sharkmx62]

I'm personally selecting which groups receive tax payer benefits because those groups offer a service invaluable to the American people can do. And please for the life of me, if it were so fuking easy why do only 1% of our population choose to do it, and even less commit themselves to leading that 1%. We are the elite amongst people, well the marine corps is. The army's history speaks for itself.
Im not diving into this subject, but to think that only 1% do it because they are the only ones able to is crazy.

[jnickell]

Oh lord, this is getting heated.

USMC, I sense your hostility. Don't let him get to you. Brad has a tendency to ask questions that fire people up. I think he yanks one out every time someone takes his bait. EightTwelve, you of all people shouldn't be throwing stones that say "personal attacks" on them. Hell, your first post in the health care thread stated that if you don't support the health care bill, you're a selfish prick. Even though you didn't direct it at an individual, you did direct it at a group of people, me being one of them.

Now, for my opinion on this spoon full of liquid crap that Brad has been deviously stirring trying to get the lumps out. The difference here is that Military personnel are EMPLOYED by the government. So if they get their health care from their employer, they can't help but to have tax payer paid coverage. One of the government's fundamental tasks is to protect the country. In order to do that, we need a military. In order for the military to work smoothly, they need to be healthy. Health care provided to the soldiers is in house anyway. At least that's what it was like when I was part of the 1%. Soldiers treating soldiers. Who treats them out in the field? That's right, soldiers. It's a self contained system. It is still employer provided. It just so happens that the employer is the tax payers.

[odeezie]

Providing tax payer funded healthcare to soldiers and marines is HARDLY socialism.
As well, I can sit and turn this thread into a debate into the history of the marines and the army but basic knowledge speaks for itself. Korea, the south pacific, fallujah, vietnam.... yea. On topic, you manipulate anything you want to coerce others thinking what you want. I''m done with this argument.

You were done before you started. :lol: I am all for servicemember healthcare, actually, I think better care is needed. I am not arguing my own views here, I am just wondering why you and copsey are against taxpayer funded healthcare, when it already exists for certain groups. Why would we argue off topic subjects? :funny: oh man...you just keep trying....

[copsey]

I will enjoy it. Daddy hooked you up with a nice shop, so ill sit back, collect food stamps, and enjoy my free healthcare. Get to work Mike!! :thumbsup:

It's obvious you have no clue as to what you speak of on either of these subjects. I don't believe you would stoop that low because you don't know the situation, I've worked fulltime since I was 18, went to college and still kept my work hours and worked two jobs while we established the shop so I wouldn't take money away that we could reinvest, that's right I worked for free and had another job to pay my bills. So yea. Guess it was just handed to me wasn't it. I can promise you wouldn't work the hours I do for the money I do and I still pay my bills and take care of my wife.

When my jaw was broken I didn't have insurance and I have paid my **** off, should I have asked for someone else to pay it for me? Should I ask for refund?

[odeezie]

Oh lord, this is getting heated.

USMC, I sense your hostility. Don't let him get to you. Brad has a tendency to ask questions that fire people up. I think he yanks one out every time someone takes his bait. EightTwelve, you of all people shouldn't be throwing stones that say "personal attacks" on them. Hell, your first post in the health care thread stated that if you don't support the health care bill, you're a selfish prick. Even though you didn't direct it at an individual, you did direct it at a group of people, me being one of them.

Now, for my opinion on this spoon full of liquid crap that Brad has been deviously stirring trying to get the lumps out. The difference here is that Military personnel are EMPLOYED by the government. So if they get their health care from their employer, they can't help but to have tax payer paid coverage. One of the government's fundamental tasks is to protect the country. In order to do that, we need a military. In order for the military to work smoothly, they need to be healthy. Health care provided to the soldiers is in house anyway. At least that's what it was like when I was part of the 1%. Soldiers treating soldiers. Who treats them out in the field? That's right, soldiers. It's a self contained system. It is still employer provided. It just so happens that the employer is the tax payers.

Its arguable...but I am not advocating the dissolution of benefits for our military, I am just pointing out the inconsistencies....oh, and stirring the pot. :-D

Honestly, I just think a lot of people shout out their initial opinion without giving it much thought. Like "Hell no we dont want a public option in healthcare, thats socialist!" Then they will tell you they fully support Medicare because our seniors need that coverage in their golden years. The two just dont mesh. It nullifies the speakers main point. I feel there was a lot of initial opinions being spoken without much thought behind them. I was trying to encourage what also could be construed as socialism and wondering why it was accepted. :thumbsup:

[jnickell]

I really think the biggest difference is the fact that you're comparing a facet of the government (the military) to an entire society (we the people). Socialism being imposed on a group that can choose to not be part of it is one thing. But once you start imposing it on the society as a whole, it turns into a much different thing.

[odeezie]

It's obvious you have no clue as to what you speak of in either of these subjects. I don't believe you would stoop that low because you don't know the situation, I've worked fulltime since I was 18, went to college and still kept my work hours and worked two jobs while we established the shop so I wouldn't take money away that we could reinvest, that's right I worked for free and had another job to pay my bills. So yea. Guess it was just handed to me wasn't it. I make less than 33k/year so we can continue to reinvest. But i don't know about anything...

I dont know your situation, youre right. Its just the constant railing against any type of social program, "with a broad brush", that made me think you were born with a silver spoon. Most who have always had, have difficulties with empathy towards those less fortunate. I stand corrected. :thumbsup:

[odeezie]

I really think the biggest difference is the fact that you're comparing a facet of the government (the military) to and entire society (we the people). Socialism being imposed on a group that can choose to not be part of it is one thing. But once you start imposing it on the society as a whole, it turns into a much different thing.

Who can choose to not be a part of it? We are all still a part of it, just most not on the receiving end...we are still paying for it. Same with Medicare, social security (well you may be on the receiving end of that in a few years :-P)

I understand what you are saying, but my point in this baiting is just to identify places where the point of the argument is completely lost....like I said, Im not arguing my personal views.

[copsey]

I dont know your situation, youre right. Its just the constant railing against any type of social program, "with a broad brush", that made me think you were born with a silver spoon. Most who have always had, have difficulties with empathy towards those less fortunate. I stand corrected. :thumbsup:


We had a farm growing up but when hog prices dropped we had to sell, I lived in a trailer for about 8 years till my parents saved the money to buy the materials to build a house, we did everything but the framing and drywall. I was 11 and helped every step of the way. Dad worked all day and came home and worked on the house.

If you want something and you work hard enough you'll get it. That's what I don't understand about this whole deal, anything you want is there for the taking if you aren't afraid to work.

[jnickell]

Who can choose to not be a part of it? We are all still a part of it, just most not on the receiving end...we are still paying for it. Same with Medicare, social security (well you may be on the receiving end of that in a few years :-P)

I understand what you are saying, but my point in this baiting is just to identify places where the point of the argument is completely lost....like I said, Im not arguing my personal views.

I said that wrong. You can choose to not be in the military where socialistic ways are practiced. We the people have a responsibility to pay for said military to protect us. I don't have a problem paying for the fundamental responsibilities of the government such as the military. However, providing health care to able bodied citizens is not one of those fundamental things.

[odeezie]

that's right I worked for free and had another job to pay my bills. So yea. Guess it was just handed to me wasn't it. I can promise you wouldn't work the hours I do for the money I do and I still pay my bills and take care of my wife.

When my jaw was broken I didn't have insurance and I have paid my **** off, should I have asked for someone else to pay it for me? Should I ask for refund?

Meh, I dont think you can promise that. I am working two jobs now and taking 16 credits at school, and I am not making all that much money. In your case, it looks like you are working your ass off now with a mind for the future, ie the reinvesting in the business, so you are making sacrifices now that will pay off later...but I wouldnt say that you arent making nice gains, you just arent realizing them now.

Let me guess, someone punched you? ;-):-P

[odeezie]

We had a farm growing up but when hog prices dropped we had to sell, I lived in a trailer for about 8 years till my parents saved the money to buy the materials to build a house, we did everything but the framing and drywall. I was 11 and helped every step of the way. Dad worked all day and came home and worked on the house.

If you want something and you work hard enough you'll get it. That's what I don't understand about this whole deal, anything you want is there for the taking if you aren't afraid to work.

I understand where you are coming from, and I feel the same way. I dont think there is reason to not work and take care of yourself. I think there are many things that hinder kids from school and knowing the right and wrong in their lives. The healthcare thing is important in that costs are rising too rapidly for employers and the government to keep up. I am not pumping a gov. takeover, I just think costs need to be addressed and I will be the first to admit I am unaware of how best to accomplish it.

I said that wrong. You can choose to not be in the military where socialistic ways are practiced. We the people have a responsibility to pay for said military to protect us. I don't have a problem paying for the fundamental responsibilities of the government such as the military. However, providing health care to able bodied citizens is not one of those fundamental things.

Agreed, like i said above, I dont think a takeover of healthcare is what needs to happen. Something needs to happen to cap the skyrocketing costs, or else we are all screwed.

[copsey]

Meh, I dont think you can promise that. I am working two jobs now and taking 16 credits at school, and I am not making all that much money. In your case, it looks like you are working your ass off now with a mind for the future, ie the reinvesting in the business, so you are making sacrifices now that will pay off later...but I wouldnt say that you arent making nice gains, you just arent realizing them now.

Let me guess, someone punched you? ;-):-P

Good guess but no, baseball bat or golf club according to the surgeon. The investment of time now is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm doing it, you are doing it, anyone can they can also choose not to, it's a choice. We are making positive choices, it will lead to more success in the future, why should the things you and I are working hard for be given to people who choos not to mak the right choices? There will always be situations where people will need help and I am for helping them, but help them don't just give them whatever they want, make them work for it. Personal pride can be a motivator or a deterant, if you have it it can drive you but if it is taken away...

[odeezie]

Good guess but no, baseball bat or golf club according to the surgeon. The investment of time now is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm doing it, you are doing it, anyone can they can also choose not to, it's a choice. We are making positive choices, it will lead to more success in the future, why should the things you and I are working hard for be given to people who choos not to mak the right choices? There will always be situations where people will need help and I am for helping them, but help them don't just give them whatever they want, make them work for it. Personal pride can be a motivator or a deterant, if you have it it can drive you but if it is taken away...

Baseball bat or golf club? You have no recollection? :eek6:

I can agree with that. :thumbsup:

[copsey]

Yea no clue, surgeon said one of the two or something similar. I remember get hit in the back of the head and turning around swinging. After that I remember waking up in my buddies apartment and not being able to breathe. That's about it, lol

[odeezie]

Yea no clue, surgeon said one of the two or something similar. I remember get hit in the back of the head and turning around swinging. After that I remember waking up in my buddies apartment and not being able to breathe. That's about it, lol


Damn man....any idea why?

[Demon]

I thought this thread was gonna be about Ohio State's strategy vs USC

[copsey]

I thought this thread was gonna be about Ohio State's strategy vs USC



Lol, that strategy didn't work either! Should have sneaked pryor at the one foot line and kicked the field goal at the end and run the clock out at the end of the first half and o. And on an on.